Debating the Science and Ethics of IVF: Emma Waters vs. Ruxandra Teslo

How should the government treat in vitro fertilization (IVF)? Should they regulate it more? Should they subsidize it? Just asking questions. 

The above are all questions that the Trump administration is actively considering in the wake of an executive order seeking to expand access to IVF. President Donald Trump previously declared himself “the fertilization president” while speaking at a women’s conference.

Today’s guests have thought about a lot about reproductive technology, birth rates, and family policy, each arriving at some very different conclusions at times. Ruxandra Teslo is a genomics Ph.D. student at the University of Cambridge and writes often about fertility and technology at Ruxandra’s Substack. Emma Waters is a reproductive technology and bioethics policy analyst at The Heritage Foundation. In this discussion, they debate the ethics of in vitro fertilization, discuss recent scientific advancements such as the ability to create eggs from other types of cells and three-parent embryos, and the emerging market in “embryo selection” that allows parents to choose between embryos with different genetic traits. 

Mentioned in this podcast:

1. Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Expands Access to In Vitro Fertilization (IVF)
2. “Total U.S. fertility rate: births per woman,” by Our World in Data.
3. “Fertility on demand,” by Ruxandra Teslo.
4. “Gameto Announces World’s First Live Birth Using Fertilo Procedure that Matures Eggs Outside the Body,” by Gameto.

Chapters

• 00:00 Podcast theme
• 00:28 Introduction and IVF Policy Context
• 01:49 IVF as a Solution for Ambitious Women
• 05:21 IVF Critiqued for Ignoring Root Causes
• 08:59 A Rebuttal: IVF Still Has Value Despite Limits
• 13:33 Egg Freezing: When, How, and Why It Works
• 17:18 The Motherhood Penalty in High-Pressure Careers
• 20:38 Reframing Motherhood as a Gift, Not a Penalty
• 24:27 Parenthood’s Transformative Impact
• 27:23 Supporting Fertility Into the Late 30s
• 31:47 Income, Incentives, and Family Wealth Dynamics
• 34:48 Is IVF Reliable Enough to Justify Delaying Kids?
• 38:48 Innovations in Fertility and IVF Technologies
• 41:54 Raising Ethical Concerns About Future Reproductive Tech
• 44:35 Does Selection Technology Devalue Life?
• 48:21 IVF, Embryo Selection, and Suffering
• 50:52 Selection Ethics: Miscarriage vs Discarding Embryos
• 56:20 Grappling with the Moral Weight of Miscarriage
• 1:00:06 The Core Disagreement: What Is a Human Embryo?
• 1:06:45 IVF, Ethics, and the Boundaries of Human Life
• 1:10:31 Can IVF Be Practiced Without Destroying Embryos?
• 1:21:10 A Life-Affirming Model for IVF Treatment
• 1:24:56 Cultural Shifts and Valuing All Stages of Life
• 1:26:35 Fertility Policy: Subsidies, Research, and Cultural Norms

• Producer: John Osterhoudt

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