Gemini assisted discussion about microtubules and Carbon Nanotubes

We had with Tuomas Sorakivi a Google assisted discussion about Carbon nanotubes (CNTs) (see this) and microtubules (MTs) (see this). Both are cylindrical structures, albeit the MTs are much more complex. Google’s language model demonstrated convincingly its power as a tool allowing us to get the information needed to test new ideas. Of course, the language models make mistakes so that they cannot be used as authorities.

Microtubules (MTs) from the TGD point of view

1. MT consists of tubulins with 2 basic conformations, which Hameroff proposed to define a classical bit. This is quite possible. The energy difference between the conformations is .043 eV which corresponds to the typical energy of membrane potential around .05 eV.
2. Around the turn of the millennium, I proposed that the TGD view of space-time allows us to consider the possibility that MTs could act as quantum antennas and receive and send signals (see this). Later the findings of Blackman and others (see this) led to the notion that the hierarchy of effective Planck constants h_eff allow long scale quantum coherence at the field body of the system. For instance, communications from a MT to its magnetic body (MB) using large h_eff photons, which behave like dark photons, can be considered. The MB could also control the MT.
3. Some MTs could be quantum-critical systems in long, even astrophysical, scales. In some cases (for example, for MTs associated with cilia at the cell surface) MT length varies all the time and they are accompanied by a longitudinal electric field which in TGD framework is a signature of large h_eff phases which can be generated by Pollack effect.

Since the increase of h_eff requires energy, quantum criticality requires metabolic energy input and GTP molecules at the surface of MT as a counterpart ATP counterparts would provide the metabolic energy. The fundamental frequency of the transmitted radiation thus varies and frequency-modulated signals are produced as the fundamental frequency of the sent signal is varied. Frequency modulation is the basic representation of information in the TGD model for biology and central in the TGD based view of number pulse and EEG (see this).

Also the cell membrane would produce frequency-modulated Josephson radiation. The variation of the membrane potential would induce the frequency modulation. The MB of the cell would receive sensory information in this way as Josephson radiation would transform to a sequence of cyclotron resonance pulses.

The length of MT varies from 20 nm to 25 micrometers: this makes 3 orders of magnitude. The energies for the antenna photons would be in the range 62.5 eV -.05 eV. The lower limit of .05 eV corresponds to the typical Josephson energy associated with the cell membrane voltage (see this). Communication from and control of cell (axonal) membranes is suggestive. This could be essential for the cell motility based on ciliar dynamics.

At the upper wavelength limit, the energies could correspond to the energy difference between X-OH and X-O^- + dark protons at the monopole flux tube defining the two states of a topological qubit. Could MT produce photons that, instead of solar light as in the ordinary Pollack effect, would produce the Pollack effect and kick the protons of -OH to a magnetic body and change the value of the topological bit? The energy range covers the frequency range of light up from infrared to the upper limit of UV. The lower limit of X-ray frequencies is 100 eV. These energies could induce molecular transitions. As found, the lower limit also corresponds to the energy difference between the 2 tubulin conformations.

After the discussion, the following question popped up. How do the in vivo and in vitro states for biomatter differ? Metabolism is of course the answer. In vivo, a part of the biosystem receives metabolic energy that is needed to maintain the h_eff distribution because h_eff tends to decrease all the time. This is not the case in vitro. This explains the differences. In the case of DNA and RNA, the permanent negative charge means in the TGD framework that dark protons reside at the monopole flux tubes stably. However, metabolic energy is needed to preserve the charge separation making possible the electric field. Same applies in the case of the cell membrane. The TGD based view of the basic information molecules and genetic code is discussed in detail in the article (see this). Carbon nanotubes (CNTs) from the TGD point of view

CNTs are hexagonal lattices with a helical structure stable at room temperature. The hexagons form a helix and the pitch angle of the helix characterizes the helical structure. The notion of chirality makes sense and there is an analogy with DNA.

First some background.

1. TGD allows us to consider the possibility of hybrids of classical computers and quantum computers transforming them to genuinely intelligent living and conscious entities (see this and this). In the proposed model, the states of a topological qubit are realized as two states defined by the -OH side group and -O^- + dark protons (large h_eff on a magnetic body of the system.

This dynamical topological qubit would accompany the ordinary bit. There are also more general identifications of topological qubits and cold plasmas are excellent candidates for the realization of dark qubits (see this). Dark protons could be replaced with dark metal ions and the findings of Blackman indeed support that dark Ca^{2+ ions are possible and led to the hypothesis about large h_eff hierarchy as phases of the ordinary matter behaving like dark matter.}

The basic prediction of TGD is that the dynamics of the space-time surfaces as analogs of Bohr orbits for particles identified as 3-surfaces ise slightly-non-deterministic: this leads to what I call zero energy ontology (ZEO) (see this). This is true also for the topological qubits: so that the temporal bit sequences defined by them are non-deterministic without a violation of the classical field equations. Temporal bit sequences are represented as Bohr orbit-like space-time surfaces and bits would correspond to the 3-D loci of non-determinism. The superpositions of these Bohr orbits as analogs of computer programs are possible and would accompany the classical program. Similar situation would prevail at the level of DNA and RNA (see thisand this). Could the -OH side groups be added to a CNT somehow to build a topological quantum computer and could CNT also give rise to a counterpart of ordinary bit as a transistor? This would give rise to a conscious computer (see this). Here Google Gemini came to the rescue.

1. In the CNT lattice, 3 valence bonds emanate from each C. The remaining electron is delocalized to a hexagon forming an aromatic ring. sp² hybridization, where s and p characterize electron orbitals, occurs. The energy spectrum of the π electron is in the range 1 meV – few eV.
2. The problem is that there are only C atoms present in CNT: -OH side groups must be created. Google informed us that this is possible. If the π electron is localized, the -OH can be placed at the resulting defect.
3. This cannot yet give a hybrid of quantum – and classical computers. How to get ordinary bits as partners for these topological qubits? A transistor provides the standard realization of a classical bit. Are CNT transistors possible? And again Google helped us: CNT transistors (CNFETs) represent a possible future technology and they define a basic research area in electronics!

This discussion demonstrated that the language models can be extremely useful tools allowing us to get instantly information impossible to find by the usual means. It is a pity that they can be also used to produce massive amounts of pseudoscience.

For a summary of earlier postings see Latest progress in TGD.

For the lists of articles (most of them published in journals founded by Huping Hu) and books about TGD see this.

Source: https://matpitka.blogspot.com/2025/12/gemini-assisted-discussion-about.html